Re: [PFS NL] Re: Leidsekade locatie Utrecht

I just thought of this. It's far from perfect, but maybe something to build upon. What about a membership fee? This makes PFS less open to newcomers, and less ideal for people who only game once or twice a month, but it would easily solve all the problems we might expect from raising the money week by week.

I'll just conjure up some numbers to illustrate my point: let's say we have 15-20 people paying membership fees. Even with only 15 people (which should be somewhere around our current attendance, I think) and let's say 5 events a month, that's 200 euros we need to raise, divided by 15. That's 13,333 euros a month per person. It's still pricey, but relatively low compared to a sports membership. And some months only have 4 events (I counted, in 2015, seven months have 4 possible events, five months 5 events), so that number could drop even more (that's only 10,666 per month).

Now, here's where my lack of maths-prowess starts to make things shaky, so feel free to correct me. 2015 has 53 possible events, assuming we'll game every single week. Divided by 12 (months), multiplied by 40 (cost per week), that's 176,666 we need to raise per month. Divided by 15 people paying membership, and you're at 11,777 a month, and that number will only go down if we adjust the price per person. It's still a fairly big investment if you spread it out over a year (and not everyone will be able/willing to pay, I guess), but it's cheaper than my gym membership, for instance.

As I said, it's not perfect and some people will definitely not be willing to pay, but I see it as a cost of having a totally sweet location for ourselves. If you go to the gym or sport, you pay for the privilege of having a location where you can do what you want, and I see this being similar. It might scare away new players and people who can only attend a few times a month, but right now we're waffling between options and no-one's happy.

Or, as an alternative, we can go to Kopi Susu. One drink is cheaper than the weekly entrance fee and we can complain about the noise, cramped place, and so on. Right now we're complaining about everything we can without coming to a decision, and I know it takes time, but I've had it with this indecision.

Feel free to criticize me an poke holes in this proposal, it's just that: a proposal. Any effort to improve upon it is welcome.

Oh, and big thanks to Simon for all the effort you're doing right now, even when you're so busy. I think that needs to be said as well.

On 1 April 2015 at 09:05, Simon Kort <simon.kort@gmail.com> wrote:

There seems to be a lot of problems around it, I agree. It is not like I am liking having to leave the DGG :( Doing the best we can, even though work for me has me so swamped I cannot even attend.

The subcultures does expect us to pay 40 euros if we have one table, or more specifically they expect 40 euros on average. Tineke you are making a few assumptions that are probably not going to work, for example the Sub has stated that the PFS community would be 'responsible' for 40 euros average and they will be adding more people to the location to catch the rest. Marinka has been pretty clear that the 40 is not going to change.

I shall discuss with Auke what to do about this and give him a call soon about it. This location business is turning into a bit of a hassle and I want the 2nd opinion of our venture captain.

Op dinsdag 31 maart 2015 21:22:36 UTC+2 schreef Tineke Bolleman:

We did have times in Noveber last year and before that we could not run three tables at the DGG due to tournaments, and we felt that. We would have people waitlisted. Attendance has dropped from then (I think januari was a bit of a freak month).

Of course real life happens so player numbers will always fluctuate. 

We are in a unique situation where our gamer space needs to be more specific then other games. As a living campaign we also have people from all walks of life. Where for a home campaign you eventually find people and a schedule that match each-other, with PFS we are a bit of a stew: little bit of everything. (but all together really good ;) )

Now this leaves us with some difficulties. The DGG was a good place. It was only thursdays, but it was free. The location was exelent, but it was often quite packed. Beer was available at cost price. We did have the side room where we could close the door, but whenever we had a side table, those people were in the really noisy main room. Also, depending on tournaments, we could not always host a third table.

That is the situation we are coming from. Now, I have not been to Kopi Susu myself, but summarising: It was only on wednesdays. There was no entry fee, but you could not bring your own drinks or snacks. The location was good, but due to the smaller space was often quite packed. This resulted in a lots of noise for all the tables, and tables having to be smaller otherwise people could not comfortably sit.

Due to not everyone being happy with the arrangements at Kopi Susu we have now tried Leise Kade. We have played there with three tables, one time. This location is available on both wednesdays and thrusdays, alternating between weeks. There is an entry fee, but you can bring your own food and drinks. There is also a fully function kitchen at our disposal, including a fridge Tijn is interesting at stocking so drinks/beer will be available at the location (for cost price). It can host three tables without the noise bothering people. There is room for a fourth table.

Currently we are all a bit miffed at the changes coming so quickly. But as far the only thing I can see people really bothering about the new location is the entry fee.

We talked to Tijn last week. The Subcultures already rents a room there, renting one for us doesnt cost that much more. The 40 euro's mentioned is what the Subcultures would like to see. Its not that they expect us to pay that even if we have one table. That would be ridiculous. If we dont pay that 40 euro, the venue will cost the Subcultures money. That is how it is. But if we can promise that if we have three or even four tables, we will still pay, so Tijn would recieve more then 40 euro those evenings, it would all even out. 

As long as we keep evening out the score like that, I think everyone will be happy. 

So coming thursday we most likely will have one table. But the week after that on wednesday, we have two. Maybe we can make it three. And those weeks can balance each-other out. And if we use this location a bit more, I think the subcultures will find other people who will want to game there, and the overall price will drop more. (example: if some other group comes to play, the price they might aim for, for PFS would drop to 30 or 25. Not real numbers, I am making up the values, but the idea is one that the Sub is working on)

I know the idea of paying for your games, as a player, is something new, and not very likable. Either in the form of having to buy drinks/snacks at commercial prices, or paying an entry fee. We did not have to do this before. But locations like the DGG are scarce. Finding a similar location that ticks all of the same boxes is pretty much impossible.  So we have to compromise somewhere. 

We cant go back to the DGG. But if we want PFS to continue, we have to keep going forward. If we throw down our dice in frustration, we are not going te able to play.

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